John McCain Can’t Get His Surrogates On Message
July 18th, 2008, 6:39 PM EDT
Whether it’s Phil Gramm saying we’re “a nation of “whiners” suffering a “mental recession” or George Will calling Americans “the crybabies of the western world“, the McCain campaign continues to be embarrassed. And now, Bud Day, a member of the Swift Boat Veterans For Bush who was most recently used to blast Wesley Clark,
In a phone call with reporters arranged by the Republican Party of Florida, Day had these kind words for those of another faith:
“The Muslims have said either we kneel or they’re going to kill us. I don’t intend to kneel and I don’t advocate to anybody that we kneel, and John doesn’t advocate to anybody that we kneel.”
Does McCain know how to fire somebody?
Don’t expect to see any of this on Hannity and Colmes or Fox News except for small footnotes at the bottom of Fox News.com. Alan doesn’t have any control of the show’s guest list or agenda and Republicans will continue to dominate the lineup and “Obama controversies” will continue to dominate the segments and news coverage.
July 18th, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Mr. Day- you’ve done the anti-Muslim crowd proud today, sir! Remember folks- every Muslim wants to kill us, they’re all the same, blah blah blah
July 18th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I equate Bud Day with Chicken Little, “The sky is falling! The sky is falling!
July 18th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Or this -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/18/mccain-leaks-details-of-o_n_113682.html
You will not see this story on FNC
July 18th, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Remember the song from South Pacific:
You’ve Got To Be Carefully Taught
You’ve got to be taught
To hate and fear
You’ve got to be taught
From year to Year
It’s got to be drummed
in your dear little ear
You’ve got to be carefully taught
You’ve got to be taught
To be Afraid
Of people whose eyes
are oddly made
And people whose skin
Is a different shade
You’ve got to be carefully taught
You’ve got to be taught
Before it’s too late
Before you are 6 or 7 or 8
To hate all the people
your relatives hate
You’ve got to be carefully taught
July 18th, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Lefty, “South Pacific” has always been one of my favorite musicals and I remember that song so well.
So true and still so relevant.
July 18th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Epiphany.
I only came to REALLY appreciate these musicals when I got older.
The first time I saw “South Pacific”, was when I was 13, and my parents made me go.
I remember thinking…’ They drag me to THIS, but they won’t let me see the Doors? HARRUMPH!
July 18th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
Haha I know what you mean. Felt the same way when my parents wouldn’t let me go to Woodstock! I was just a kid at the time so they were obviously right but still… lol!
July 18th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Oh my God! That song is so relevent in today’s society. I’ve never seen the movie, but now I’m going to rent it.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
>Whether it’s Phil Gramm saying we’re “a nation of “whiners” suffering a “mental recession” or George Will calling Americans “the crybabies of the western world“, the McCain campaign continues to be embarrassed.
That’s because speaking truth to powerlessness is as painful as truth to power.
July 18th, 2008 at 9:52 pm
Now the Muslims want to kill us? Who’s going to be the next boogyman the republicans will to try to sell us?
July 18th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
The Quran, the Hadith and the Sira are the holy trilogy of Islamic writings. From all three, Muslims are to derive the will of Allah.
From the eternal words of Allah:
Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”
From the sayings and doings, or Hadith, of the Perfect Man, Mohemmed:
Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’”
From the sacrilized biography of Mohemmed, the Sira, written by Ishaq:
Ishaq:208 “When Allah gave permission to his Apostle to fight, the second Aqaba contained conditions involving war which were not in the first act of submission. Now we bound themselves to war against all mankind for Allah and His Apostle. He promised us a reward in Paradise for faithful service. We pledged ourselves to war in complete obedience to Muhammad no matter how evil the circumstances.”
Muslims might fight against all mankind until only Islam reigns supreme over the world and there is no other religion.
This is reaffirmed by Thomas Jefferson’s letter to Congress from London after meeting with the Ambassador of the Muslim terrorist state of Tripoli:
“The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their Prophet, that it was written in their Koran, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners.”
And more recently this is re-affirmed by the Muslim Brotherhood (Ikhwan) and documents it produced that turned up in the Holy Land Foundation trial. This is regarding the Brotherhood’s plan for North America:
“The process of settlement is a “Civilization-Jihadist Process” with all the means. The Ikhwan must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and “sabotaging” its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and Allah’s religion is made victorious over all other religions. Without this level of understanding, we are not up to this challenge and have not prepared ourselves for Jihad yet. It is a Muslim’s destiny to perform Jihad and work wherever he is and wherever he lands until the final hour comes, and there is not escape from that destiny except for those who chose to slack. But, would the slackers and the Mujahedeen be equal.
· As part of the process is “[the] conviction that the success of the settlement of Islam and its Movement in this country [America] is a success to the global Islamic Movement and true support for the sought after state [caliphate] God willing.”
The first bullet is a clear threat statement of hostile intent while the second speaks to foreign agency to a transnational movement with stated objectives that overlap with al-Qaeda’s. When assessing members who belong to organizations known to be identified with the Muslim Brotherhood, the inference should be that their designated leaders have knowledge of its identified roles and missions. It is not reasonable to do otherwise.
The strategic goal of the Muslim Brotherhood in North America is multifold: the destruction of Western civilization through a long-term civilization-killing Jihad from within (“by their [our] hands”) and through sabotage (“the hands of the believers”) and, secondly; to support the global Islamic movement to establish an Islamic super-state, the caliphate.
When conducting outreach with organizations identified as being a party to the “strategic goals” identified in the Memorandum, the gain/loss assessment of associating with them should be undertaken in light of their clearly stated hostile intent that includes the subversion of American institutions through outreach, strategic deception and perception management. To undertake outreach with known identified organizations without knowledge of their objectives is to run the extreme risk of strategic manipulation by declared Jihad entities in ways that fulfill stated Muslim Brotherhood objectives as enumerated in the Memorandum.”
Yet, the Leftists want us to believe that Muslims do not actually follow their religion , or take their religion seriously. The Leftists expect us to believe that Muslims aren’t Muslims at all.
July 18th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Oh, how kind the news was today to provide me with the most up-to-date version of the beliefs that I provided in my last comment..
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,566740,00.html
‘Compared to Us, Hamas Is Islamism Lite’
It’s not easy to find a place to meet the man who goes by the name of Abu Mustafa. A number of places were agreed on and jettisoned. Finally, after hours of cruising around Gaza City with Abu Mustafa’s driver, the call came
…
Many people would like to speak with Abu Mustafa these days — he guesses about 10 men call him each day. Abu Mustafa holds the key to an ideology that many are turning to in the Gaza Strip: Salafist jihadism, a belief in the most radical form of Islam. “We meet secretly in mosques and private homes,” says Abu Mustafa, who has become an entry point to the movement for many. He says the Salafis now number up to 5,000 people [Vince: This the number in Gaza.. there are millions of Salafis all over the world], not counting the women and children.
….
Salafis — sometimes referred to as Wahhabis — dream of a world before Islam became cluttered with new innovations and cultural influences.
They seek to live a pious, god-fearing life governed by the laws of religion, a life resembling those of the original Muslims. At first glance, such a belief system doesn’t differ much from that of other utopian sects — were it not for their ideas related to holy war. To make their vision a reality, Abu Mustafa and his men are willing to fight — and they are willing to slaughter innocent bystanders.
[Vince: This is exactly what I said the other day... unlike the Christian Reformation leading to a more peaceful Christianity, an Islamic Reformation leads to a more violent Islam]
“Look,” says Abu Mustafa, whose beard cascades down his chest, “there will be three possibilities. Some will find their way to Islam. Those who don’t want to convert will be able to live in peace under the authority of Islam.” For those who don’t want to accept the hegemony of Islam, however, holy war is the only recipe. “Then we have to fight — just like our brothers on Sept. 11,” Abu Mustafa says.
…
He explains that he was largely accepted in Germany and found people there to be quite friendly. The only problems came about when he encountered scantily clad women or fellow students who spent much of their time in clubs and bars. He says such experiences rooted him even deeper in his beliefs. “It would be better for such people were they to follow the pure Islam,” he says. “We are going to try and bring the faith to them.”
The Salafi warns that Germany, by supporting Israel and participating in operations in Afghanistan, is a clear target for his fellow Islamists. He claims he himself would never move against his “second home,” but he warns that “Germany should be afraid of being attacked.”
…
Salafis from the Gaza Strip first stepped into the global spotlight in March 2007, when jihadis from Jaish al-Islam (Army of Islam) kidnapped BBC journalist Alan Johnston, who was based in the Gaza Strip. The group is a small faction among Salafis. They held Johnston hostage for four months, threatening to kill him and showing images of him wearing a suicide belt. Abu Mustafa says it was a legitimate tactic in the struggle for Islam. “It was nothing personal. It was a message to the West that they should release imprisoned Muslims.” For the moment, he adds reassuringly, foreign journalists are not in danger in the Gaza Strip.
Indeed, Abu Mustafa says, he and his comrades in arms realize they need to be patient. There’s a long way to go before they can begin their struggle for global influence. First, they have to take care of an enemy closer to home: Hamas.
So far, Hamas has done what it can to keep the Salafis under control. They know the ultra-radicals are just waiting to take over Hamas’ position of leadership. “They are traitors,” Abu Mustafa says of Hamas. “Compared to us, they are Islamism lite.”
Nevertheless, he’s willing to be merciful. “We will give them the chance to turn away from the false path,” he says. And what happens if they don’t take up the offer? “Then there will be confrontation,” Abu Mustafa promises, bringing his fists together. Still, he doesn’t think it likely that the Salafis will have to take up arms against Hamas. “It won’t be necessary. They will destroy themselves.”
[Vince: It's almost absurd.. HAMAS isn't radical enough for these people]
…
The group’s greatest sin, says Abu Mustafa, who is also the father of two children, is its effort to bring Islam and democracy together. “Hamas represents an American style of Islam. They have tried to curry favor.” Which is not such a bad thing for Abu Mustafa and his Salafis. “Hamas is like a block of ice in the sun,” he says. “Every minute they get smaller — and we get larger.”
July 19th, 2008 at 12:20 am
Jesus said similar missives.
But when you selectively read the bible, excluding those passages you don’t like or don’t want to obey, you get a distorted message.
Vinnie Pee should look up the word ‘brevity’ in a dictionary.
July 19th, 2008 at 12:58 am
The issue was what are the Muslims of the 21st Century up to. Boogieman should look up Non Sequitur.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:06 am
You’re preaching to an earplugged crowd, Vince. It’s also amazing the maturity of some of these people on here calling you Vinnie Pee…wow…I’m just astounded at the level of intellectual discourse. Do personal attacks make you people feel good?
Boogieman, there is no comparison between Christianity and Islam. You all on the left WANT there to be, but there is none. History is pretty clear.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:27 am
It’s also amazing the maturity of some of these people on here calling you Vinnie Pee…wow…I’m just astounded at the level of intellectual discourse
I’m used to it. No one on the Left is particularly original. Not even in their immaturity.
I’ve concluded it’s a value of the Left to behave as if one is on a school bus
July 19th, 2008 at 1:34 am
For those folks who think the Law Enforcement mode of counter-terrorism is the proper policy position should watch the 5-part series of Uncommon Knowledge that features Andrew McCarthy. He led the prosecution of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman and 11 others for the 1993 WTC Bombing.
Click on “permalink” for each part to watch the segments:
http://tv.nationalreview.com/uncommonknowledge/
Here are the summaries for each part, all emphasis are mine:
Law & Jihad with Andrew McCarthy: Chapter 1 of 5
Andrew McCarthy discusses his role in the prosecution of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, who is now serving time for the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. McCarthy says justice was served in the trial. In terms of national security, however, McCarthy fears the protracted trial only emboldened the enemy.
Law & Jihad with Andrew McCarthy: Chapter 2 of 5
Andy McCarthy discusses the “chasm between the Islam of Western fantasy and the Islam that actually exists.” For one, the Islamic ideology of jihad, or holy war, is not a modern, incidental phenomenon; rather, it is fourteen centuries old and commands the allegiance of hundreds of millions of people. For another, jihad will not simply “go away.”
Law & Jihad with Andrew McCarthy: Chapter 3 of 5
Andy McCarthy discusses jihad in America, underscoring the fact that “jihadists are very adept at exploiting the freedoms that are available to them in Western democracies.” Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman, in fact, found it easier to operate here in the U.S. than in his home country of Egypt.
Law & Jihad with Andrew McCarthy: Chapter 4 of 5
Andy McCarthy illustrates some of the differences between law enforcement and national security. Citizens of the U.S., of course, are presumed innocent until proven guilty; in this country we would rather see the guilty go free than the innocent wrongly convicted. Yet in terms of national security, government cannot be permitted to fail. Hence, we cannot have a system where we presume the innocence of accused terrorists.
Law & Jihad with Andrew McCarthy: Chapter 5 of 5
Is there a way to balance war and the “rule of law”? McCarthy says simply that those we capture must be given “enough” justice — in particular so we can continue to maintain the cooperation of our allies — while the idea must be to win the war. And how well has the Bush administration performed at both administrating the law and prosecuting the war? McCarthy hands out some grades.
July 19th, 2008 at 4:42 am
If anyone wishes to believe the Muslim faith to be peaceful, let them. It is what Muslims hope for. They would love nothing better than to conquer America by deception. World history is full of nations conquered by their own ignorance and stupidity.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:50 am
The Conservative said,
“If anyone wishes to believe the Muslim faith to be peaceful, let them. It is what Muslims hope for. They would love nothing better than to conquer America by deception. World history is full of nations conquered by their own ignorance and stupidity.
As Glenn L. Carle (who was a member of the CIA’s Clandestine Service for 23 years and retired in March 2007 as deputy national intelligence officer for transnational threats)
wrote in the Washington post on July 13:
“Sen. John McCain has repeatedly characterized the threat of “radical Islamic extremism” as “the absolute gravest threat . . . that we’re in against.” Before we simply accept this, we need to examine the nature of the terrorist threat facing our country. If we do so, we will see how we have allowed the specter of that threat to distort our lives and take our treasure.
The “Global War on Terror” has conjured the image of terrorists behind every bush, the bushes themselves burning and an angry god inciting its faithful to religious war.
We do not face a global jihadist “movement” but a series of disparate ethnic and religious conflicts involving Muslim populations, each of which remains fundamentally regional in nature and almost all of which long predate the existence of al-Qaeda.
Osama bin Laden and his disciples are small men and secondary threats whose shadows are made large by our fears. “
, People I have known through work who are Christian, Moslem, Jew, Hindu. who are from the Middle East, India,Pakistan ,and the Philippines Have always said that we support and prop up the WORST of that region for the WORST reasons.
When I was in my 20s, people would say that ‘You don’t realize how much the Iranians HATE the Shaw and the SAVAK. Ultimately, there will be consequences , they warned.
The same as when you support the Moslem Brotherhood over Nasser because Nasser threatened to take back the Suez Canal.
The same as when you support the Mujahideen in Afganistan and the the Wahabbs in Saudi.
When the blow back comes, the conservatives are always shocked and say:
“HOW DID THESE PEOPLE GET SO RADICAL??..
And then go on to do the same thing all over again, and be shocked and stunned all over again!
Whether The Conservative wants to believe it or not, most people in the world right now, (and I know from friends in India, who are Hindu), Believe that his statement :
“They would love nothing better than to conquer America by deception. World history is full of nations conquered by their own ignorance and stupidity.” ,
applies MORE to the US, than it does to the Islamic world.
July 19th, 2008 at 8:48 am
Say good bye to Britian:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036328/All-state-pupils-taught-Islamic-traditions-compulsory-citizenship-lessons.html
All state pupils may be taught Islamic traditions as part of compulsory citizenship lessons
By Matthew Hickley
Last updated at 1:25 AM on 19th July 2008
State school pupils are set to be taught Islamic traditions and values in compulsory citizenship lessons.
The move - part of a package of initiatives announced by Communities Secretary Hazel Blears yesterday - is designed to curb extremism.
Education campaigners warned however against giving Islam a privileged position over other faiths.
Other plans announced by Miss Blears also drew criticism - including a state-funded panel of Islamic scholars and theologians to provide community leadership.
Prominent Muslims said this scheme was naive because Government endorsement would erode the credibility of those taking part, especially among the young and disaffected.
Another measure will see Muslim children being taught citizenship lessons by imams in mosque schools - in the hope that they will be better equipped to resist extremist messages.
Many Muslim youngsters in the UK attend evening classes at madrassah schools attached to mosques, where imams give instruction in the Koran and Islamic history.
Ministers want imams to stress that the Koran places a duty on all Muslims to be good neighbours, carry out voluntary work and play an active part in civic society.
Pilot schemes will begin in October in London, Leicester, Birmingham, Oldham, Rochdale, and Bradford.
The Department for Communities and Local Government has tasked the Islam & Citizenship Education group with producing the teaching materials for mosques.
The organisation, however, wants to extend its remit to mainstream state schools by ‘teaching Islamic traditions and values in the school citizenship curriculum’.
David Conway, senior research fellow at the Civitas think-tank, said: ‘Some will see this as another sign of a creeping process of Islamisation - an insidious process which plays down the Christian basis of our culture and encourages children to learn more and more about Islam’s contribution.
‘Muslims are still a relatively small minority in Britain and, while I have nothing against children in our multi-religious society learning about each other’s faiths, for one particular faith to be privileged in mainstream schools seems to me pointless, and won’t make for greater harmony.
‘I fear it will play into the hands of the small minority who want to see the Islamisation of Europe, and believe they will triumph through sheer numbers.’
Unlike religious education classes, citizenship lessons, which do not cover issues of belief, are compulsory.
Nick Seaton, chairman of the Campaign for Real Education, said: ‘We should not single out one particular faith. Citizenship is supposed to be secular.
‘Children can learn about particular religious values in religious education lessons. That’s why parents have the right to withdraw. It’s a very different matter to promote a particular faith’s values as part of compulsory citizenship lessons.
‘It seems to me dangerous to single out the one faith which is probably linked to the most problems with terrorism at the moment for special treatment.’
Khalid Mahmood, project manager of Islam & Citizenship Education, stressed that the project was at a very early stage.
He said: ‘The material is being developed for the madrassahs but we are putting it together so that people in mainstream schools would also be able to use it.’
Miss Blears announced details of the panel of 20 leading Muslim experts which will have £100,000 in state funding.
Based at Cambridge University, the experts will be expected to compile reports on key issues in the lives of British Muslims, such as the wearing of Islamic veils by women.
Miss Blears insisted the new panel would be independent, adding: ‘It is not for Government to dictate on matters of faith or religious teaching.’
Dr Azzam Tamimi, of the Institute of Islamic Political Thought in London, said the scheme was doomed to failure.
He said: ‘This is a naive initiative. This not how Muslim education or awareness works.
‘When a Muslim individual seeks advice or knowledge he or she would usually go to a person they consider to be credible or an authority, and usually Muslims are suspicious of government-sponsored or organised commissions.’
Dr Tamimi told BBC Radio 4’s Today Programme ministers were trying to dictate to Muslims over religious awareness and education.
July 19th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Old Lefty:
Thanks for keeping the sanity on this bloodthirsty site.
July 19th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
“Boogieman, there is no comparison between Christianity and Islam. You all on the left WANT there to be, but there is none. History is pretty clear.”
To a point you are correct. Christianity has a body count un-rivaled by only Stalin.
I’m no appologist for the Moslem faith, but until recently, most all Moslem countries have had Jewish and Christian communities existing within those societies. Not that they were treated the best, mind you.
Some Moslem countries still do and they get along pretty well.
July 19th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
What is the body count of Christianity?
July 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Boogieman,
More people have been killed by the Muslim Nations than any other country in history. You are among the ignorant and stupid I speak of.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Oh! Including OldLefty and TDro.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Vinnie Pee is a muslim…
July 19th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
“Boogieman,
More people have been killed by the Muslim Nations than any other country in history. You are among the ignorant and stupid I speak of.”
by The Conservative July 19, 2008 at 3:09 pm
…………………………………………..
Between the Crusades, the witch hunts, the death tolls from all unnecessary wars started by predominatly Christians nations, Algeria, Viet Nam Pinochet, South and Central America, the war in Iraq, Slobo Milosovich, ALL the Jews killed in Germany…
What’s wrong with you people?
July 19th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
If there is going to be some Kneeling to do..”they” can start at the whitehouse! just look for someone who calls himself THE DECIDER he often says HE WILL DECIDE WHAT IS BEST.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Well now who would know more about “stupid” and “ignorant” than Conservative? He can’t prove his point so he resorts to personal attacks. Very adult.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Old Lefty:
I’ts fruitless to argue with these far right war mongers. They have only war and killing on their minds. And if we don’t agree, we’re labeled as “stupid”. How ironic.
July 19th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
OldLefty,
The Vatican lead the Crusades. I’m not Catholic.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
OldLefty,
I stand by my comment. The Muslim Nations have murdered more people than any other nation.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
TDro,
Gee, I’ve hurt your feelings? You disguised yourself as a tuff guy.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
I’m still waiting for the Body Count that Christianity is responsible for.
You guys make the statement “Christianity has a body count un-rivaled by only Stalin.”
Lets hear some facts. What is the number.. Or do you just make up shit?
I think you just make up shit.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
And things like the Holocaust werent done in the name of Christianity, thus is not attributable to it.. neither was the Iraq war,etc.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
OldLefty,
I stand by my comment. The Muslim Nations have murdered more people than any other nation.
by The Conservative July 19, 2008 at 6:29 pm
………………………………………….
Then, you’d be wrong.
Look, I’m not saying one is better than the other.
I believe there is NO connection between religion and God at all.
But Geez, The Ottoman Empire WAS the more civilized in the Middle ages while Christian Europeans were the Barbarians.
Look at the genocide of the Indians here, and the
Conquistadores in South America,all in the name of Christianity, and to somehow believe that “WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN THEIR MORAL BETTERS!” just seems kind of childish.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Guess who the Spainish learned to be so cruel from… their own 700 year occupation by Muslims.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:51 pm
I don’t want McCain to fire any of these people, especially Gramm. Please, let them just keep making these comments.
July 19th, 2008 at 6:55 pm
These Democrats in Congress are out of their mind:
They’re going to RAISE the gas tax?
The Democrats have declared war on the tax-payers of this country.
July 19th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Still no Christian body count.
How weak….. just like i thought… things are said just to say them. no regard to what is true
July 19th, 2008 at 8:07 pm
How far back do you want to go, Vinnie?
The million women who were put to death because the church thought they were witches? The millions that shed blood when the ‘Holy Roman Empire’ invaded their country?
The millions that were put to the sword because they didn’t want to become Christians? Or those that were put to death after they became Christians in order to keep them from changing back?
The genocide against the Native Americans in this country?
The Incas that died for resisting the Spanish?
AND who said the holocaust wasn’t a ‘Christian’ retaliation?
Hilter, a Catholic in good standing, often claimed he was doing ‘God’s Work’.
July 19th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
What’s the number. You made a quantifable claim..
What is the number?
July 19th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
“And then go on to do the same thing all over again, and be shocked and stunned all over again!”
And we’re doing it yet again by supplying funds and arms to terrorist groups inside Iran.
But it’s ok because the jack-booted stormtroopers of Homeland Security will root out and destroy anything that smells of disloyalty to the new Orwellian state.
July 20th, 2008 at 1:48 am
Twelve million; is that quantifable enough?
July 20th, 2008 at 2:15 am
Finally
Muslims have killed 260 Million, specifically in the name of the Jihad.
They killed:
60 Million Christians in Europe and Africa
80 Million Hindus in India
10 Million Buddhists throughout Asia
120 Million Black Africans
Your ignorance is overwhelming
July 20th, 2008 at 2:44 am
oops: 270M not 260M
July 20th, 2008 at 2:44 am
Vince P,
YouTube and MySpace seem to be their sources of information. Forget a library or books.
July 20th, 2008 at 3:30 am
The difference, Vinnie Pee, is that I’m using admittedly conservative numbers, and you are using exagerated numbers(perhaps wildly so).
July 20th, 2008 at 4:28 pm
You would have to know the truth in order to determine if I am exagerrating.
It’s obvious that you don’t. So just like the statement that Christianity’s body count is surprassed only by Stalin , you invent yet another assertion. You’re truly pathetic and immune from learning.
July 20th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
More likely you pulled those numbers out of your ass.
Knowledge has less to do with it than your arrogance.
July 21st, 2008 at 1:27 pm
You must be confusing me with people like yourself.
Africa
Thomas Sowell [Thomas Sowell, Race and Culture, BasicBooks, 1994, p. 188] estimates that 11 million slaves were shipped across the Atlantic and 14 million were sent to the Islamic nations of North Africa and the Middle East. For every slave captured many others died. Estimates of this collateral damage vary. The renowned missionary David Livingstone estimated that for every slave who reached a plantation, five others were killed in the initial raid or died of illness and privation on the forced march.[Woman’s Presbyterian Board of Missions, David Livingstone, p. 62, 1888] Those who were left behind were the very young, the weak, the sick and the old. These soon died since the main providers had been killed or enslaved. So, for 25 million slaves delivered to the market, we have an estimated death of about 120 million people. Islam ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa.
120 million Africans
Christians
The number of Christians martyred by Islam is 9 million [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-10] . A rough estimate by Raphael Moore in History of Asia Minor is that another 50 million died in wars by jihad. So counting the million African Christians killed in the 20th century we have:
60 million Christians
Hindus
Koenard Elst in Negationism in India gives an estimate of 80 million Hindus killed in the total jihad against India. [Koenard Elst, Negationism in India, Voice of India, New Delhi, 2002, pg. 34.] The country of India today is only half the size of ancient India, due to jihad. The mountains near India are called the Hindu Kush, meaning the “funeral pyre of the Hindus.”
80 million Hindus
Buddhists
Buddhists do not keep up with the history of war. Keep in mind that in jihad only Christians and Jews were allowed to survive as dhimmis (servants to Islam); everyone else had to convert or die. Jihad killed the Buddhists in Turkey, Afghanistan, along the Silk Route, and in India. The total is roughly 10 million. [David B. Barrett, Todd M. Johnson, World Christian Trends AD 30-AD 2200, William Carey Library, 2001, p. 230, table 4-1.]
10 million Buddhists
Jews
Oddly enough there were not enough Jews killed in jihad to significantly affect the totals of the Great Annihilation. The jihad in Arabia was 100 percent effective, but the numbers were in the thousands, not millions. After that, the Jews submitted and became the dhimmis (servants and second class citizens) of Islam and did not have geographic political power.
This gives a rough estimate of 270 million killed by jihad.
=======
You’re the one who pulled out of your ass that Christians were only exceeded by Stalin in terms of death toll.. Somehow you managed to be totally oblivious to the 1,400-year history of death that Muslims have brought to their neighbors.
It’s amazing how little you understand the world and how you ignore the slaughter of other people , as long as they aren’t European, I guess it doesn’t matter right?
July 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Truth hurts. Instead of running away and crying that someone hurt your feelings why don’t you look in the mirror and see if they are right. If you are an objective person you would realize that we are in a mental recession and we are a bunch of whiners, and that the Muslims do want to destroy us. Sorry it’s not all rainbows, but frankly the world doesn’t give a damn about your feelings. Toughen up.
July 21st, 2008 at 7:50 pm