Responses to this post...

1. The most patriotic people are the ones who don’t feel the need to speak about their patriotism and whore it in the public square.

   Posted by Mike Beckham
   July 3rd, 2008 at 12:10 pm

2. Patriotism is more about intent than a specific behavior. There’ll always be people who argue the patriotism of a protest or of the assumption of national greatness as exhibited by wearing flag pins, etc.

   Posted by W F G
   July 3rd, 2008 at 12:28 pm

3. It’s interesting that liberals seem to take the most pride in the victory of movements driven by the little people,like the abolition of slavery, women’s sufferage,and the civil rights movement.

   We took pride in the shared sacrifice of ALL Americans in WW11, while feeling sad at the necessary death and misery that the war brought.

   Conservatives, on the other hand seem to hate the movements driven by the riff raff, while taking pride in military victories, whether justified or not.

   I think that whether it be the Boston tea party, The Bill of Rights, civil rights, womens right, gays rights, right wingers have ALWAYS been on the wrong side!

   You can see this in the Jeremiah Wright versus Hagee and Parsley controversy:
   While Wright is ranting about the big powerful government crushing the little people, the right wing preachers are ranting about the big powerful government NOT keeping the little people in line.

   Posted by OldLefty
   July 3rd, 2008 at 2:05 pm

4. Midgets are out to get us!

   Posted by W F G
   July 3rd, 2008 at 2:21 pm

5. In any case, maturity is demonstrated by taking conscious, well-considered action.
   Wearing a lapel pin or participating in a march is, itself, an ambiguous act; you could be genuine or a nitwit either way.
   Think for yourself, guard your independence, and yield not to the conservative fascist or liberal fascists who’d be your overlords, given opportunity.

   Posted by C Smith
   July 3rd, 2008 at 3:07 pm

6. Ask a Republican. They’re the fuckin’ experts…

   Posted by FuRyUs
   July 3rd, 2008 at 3:32 pm

7. Agreed, C Smith.

   Posted by Sarah
   July 3rd, 2008 at 3:49 pm

8. flag pin

   Posted by Chris Jones
   July 3rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm

9. The ability to agree and disagree with American policy displays your level of patriotism. What level of action one takes exposes our love of country. Sometimes those most vocal in opposition are the most patriotic. The opposite of love is not hate, but indifference. I care if we are invaded from the South, Far East, or Middle East.

   Posted by Cecil Jones
   July 3rd, 2008 at 4:32 pm

10. What is patriotism?

    Wikipedia:
    Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation.

    So patriotism IS inherently conservative according to that definition. It’s appreciating the *good* about the country instead of complaining/protesting about the bad. Protesting isn’t WRONG at all but is the protest to preserve or change? Preservation of culture is more patriotic than change of culture. That’s not to say that the change is wrong, I just wouldn’t necessarily consider the zeitgeist of the times as patriotic, good or bad.

    I love this country DESPITE the fact that unborn children are being killed yearly by the thousands. I’ve never protested that. (Perhaps I should.) DESPITE all the evils of this country, we have a lot of good things going for us. Loving the country DESPITE our flaws is what patriotism is, I think.

    So the answer to the question is FLAG PIN! ;) That is saying “I am proud to be an American despite our problems.”

    Posted by flap
    July 3rd, 2008 at 4:48 pm

11. The conservatives of Colonial America thought George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams, and the rest of our founding fathers were un-patriotic for betraying the King of England. The People who participated at the Boston Tea Party were not proud of the colonies or of British law now they are some of the greatest or most well known patriots in American history. Was FDR proud of our countries lack of regulation, which led to the Great Depression? Was Abraham Lincoln proud of Southern Slavery? At the time Lincoln was considered Anti-American by a majority of people in the south. Was our entire nation proud of Nixon? Are conservatives proud of roe vs. Wade? Should we condemn them as Anti-American for speaking their mind? It is the most patriotic expression to criticize the government. Those who call fellow citizens Anti-American for doing so are themselves Unconstitutional. People who claim that speech in protest of governmental policy is some how Anti-American are in reality not a supporter of the 1st Amendment. No one who is a citizen while expressing their thoughts should ever be called Anti-American for doing so out of respect for the right to protest and the protection of free speech. Though calling fellow Americans Anti-American is protected speech it is not an act of honesty to call free speech Anti-American. For when they do they are spitting upon the Bill of Rights.

    Posted by John David Prince
    July 3rd, 2008 at 5:27 pm

12. Political language is very tricky to weed through. I would venture to say that Tom Hartman has decoded much of the lexicon for the American people. We are affected by the psychological reaction we experience when we hear or read words. The reaction may be conscious or unconscious but we conditioned by the language that surrounds us. The Green House Effect has turned into Global Warming and now is a cute little puppy named Climate Change, Thus removing the sound of threat or man’s influence. To avoid the constitutionality of choice the wording is not anti-choice instead it is called pro-life.
    How is your PTSD or my grand father’s shell shock, as G. Carlin has pointed out years ago through comedy? A tax shelter for the ultra wealthy is called a fair tax or flat tax. If you wish to have the tax be a smaller proportion of your income just make more money. That sounds great for a world full of only Kings, but we are living in reality. We greet one another on radio talk shows as, “you’re a great American,” thus leaving the opposing viewpoint drowning in anti-Americanism or unpatriotic, un-American, subversive waters by default. How sad it is that blind nationalism reminiscent of the Soviet era of anti-Soviets were rounded up and sent to reprogramming camps or prison for dissenting opinions. World War 2 had a group that rounded up anti-Germans, they were lovingly called the S.S. That is why we should all be disturbed by the use of the term anti-American or un-American when describing fellow Americans. The catch phrase, “Love it or Leave it,” is an endearing bumper sticker for Pol Pot. He hated the educated intellectuals of Cambodia who were smart enough to realize how much they did not Love it. Yes the big surprise is the fundamentalist Extremists during the 1980’s who beat down the Soviet Union in Afghanistan by the Mujahedeen who referred to the Soviet Union as secular atheists that had to be expelled and defeated in the name of God. Does that sound familiar? Does the fear, ridicule, or language of some conservatives sound similar to the Bush Sr. Freedom Fighters of Afghanistan? Many conservatives routinely mention their displeasure for intellectuals, science, atheists, and other religions other than Christianity, Anti-American, Americans, and opposing views, thoughts, or speech. The problem is that questioning religion, conservative republican ideologies, or foreign and domestic policy will garner a possible label of un-American or anti-American subversion reminiscent or the Alien and Sedition Act of early American history. This is extreme nationalism, a super pride of nationhood, a pride so great that anything or anyone even slightly different thus becomes an Anti-American. We must remember that the only true Anti-Americans are those who wish to commit violence, kill, or wage war upon the nation, not the Americans who question or participate on the other side of the political equation. We are all Americans. Speech, thought and opinion are and can never be Anti-American. Though it would seem that we have sunk down to Soviet Era Nationalism. I am now sick and tired of being sick and tired of blind nationalism.

    Posted by John David Prince
    July 3rd, 2008 at 5:36 pm

13. flap said,

    I love this country DESPITE the fact that unborn children are being killed yearly by the thousands. I’ve never protested that. (Perhaps I should.) DESPITE all the evils of this country, we have a lot of good things going for us. Loving the country DESPITE our flaws is what patriotism is, I think.

    *************************************************

    If that’s what you believe, you SHOULD protest.

    I feel it is my patriotic duty as a citizen to hold the government (who works for me) to account, by protesting the fact that innocent people are killed in an unjust war based on lies.

    I wouldn’t let my children get away with doing something wrong why would I let my government?

    Patriotism :
    “My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right.”

    That’s our jobs.

    Posted by OldLefty
    July 3rd, 2008 at 5:38 pm

14. The same political pundits who scream about how bad, evil, or threatening being PC is are the same people who cry foul when they hear any harsh criticism against their ideas or concept of how the world is or could be. The same people who complain that Political Correctness is destroying America are the first to say, “How dare you say that.” Both political parties are guilty of claiming that some statement should not be spoken and this is a violation of the essence we call, American values or free speech. Conservatives have the right to claim that political correctness is evil. But if they wish to remain the great Americans they preach to be they should refrain from denouncing other opinions as anti or un-American. For every criticism, thought, complaint, idea, and speech is part of being a good or even a great American. It does not matter if you agree with it or not, all speech, even offensive, repulsive, blasphemous, shocking, critical, or damning speech is free to be expressed and not deemed anti-American. For it is odd that the people who hate political correctness cannot take it when they are challenged, criticized, or told that they might be wrong, nuts, and potentially unconstitutional. The proper word should not be anti-American or un-American; instead the proper word is unconstitutional. Are you unconstitutional? Do you uphold the constitution? Are your actions constitutional? Claiming that any speech from any American citizen is some how unacceptable is unconstitutional. Political correctness is a form of speech so is non-political correct speech; hello, that is true free speech. Now if I say that putting a cross on a state license plate is a blatant promotion of religion by the state, thus unconstitutional would the conservatives call or dub me anti-American?

    Posted by John David Prince
    July 3rd, 2008 at 5:38 pm

15. Sure it’s my country, right or wrong.

    But that’s got nothing to do with the goddamn government, or the fucking assholes in charge of everything.

    Posted by RC from Smithtown
    July 3rd, 2008 at 6:54 pm

16. The reason I want to see this country move in a new direction is precisely because of my patriotism and love for this country. It pains me to see our great country moving in a downward spiral and regressing rather than progressing.

    Posted by Michael
    July 3rd, 2008 at 9:08 pm

17. The etymological take:

    patriot
    1596, “compatriot,” from M.Fr. patriote (15c.), from L.L. patriota “fellow-countryman” (6c.), from Gk. patriotes “fellow countryman,” from patrios “of one’s fathers,” patris “fatherland,” from pater (gen. patros) “father,” with -otes, suffix expressing state or condition. Meaning “loyal and disinterested supporter of one’s country” is attested from 1605, but became an ironic term of ridicule or abuse from mid-18c. in England, so that Johnson, who at first defined it as “one whose ruling passion is the love of his country,” in his fourth edition added, “It is sometimes used for a factious disturber of the government.”
    “The name of patriot had become [c.1744] a by-word of derision. Horace Walpole scarcely exaggerated when he said that … the most popular declaration which a candidate could make on the hustings was that he had never been and never would be a patriot.” [Macaulay, "Horace Walpole," 1833]
    Somewhat revived in ref. to resistance movements in overrun countries in WWII, it has usually had a positive sense in Amer.Eng., where the phony and rascally variety has been consigned to the word patrioteer (1928). Oriana Fallaci ["The Rage and the Pride," 2002] marvels that Americans, so fond of patriotic, (1757) patriot, and patriotism (1726), lack the root noun and are content to express the idea of patria by cumbersome compounds such as homeland. (Joyce, Shaw, and H.G. Wells all used patria as an Eng. word early 20c., but it failed to stick.)

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=patriot

    Posted by W F G
    July 3rd, 2008 at 9:11 pm

18. My Father was born in Oklahoma, Guymon to be exact, therefore I pronouce patriotism to be love of Guymon, Ok. Definition settled.

    Posted by W F G
    July 3rd, 2008 at 9:14 pm

19. Speaking of uber patriots…

    ‘When John McCain was my captive’
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20229.htm

    Posted by Burt
    July 4th, 2008 at 12:01 am

20. Patriots would never let the country go down the shitter.

    None of us are patriots!

    Posted by Dave from Kentucky
    July 4th, 2008 at 1:14 am

21. I settled this. Damn it.

    Posted by W F G
    July 4th, 2008 at 1:29 am

22. lol, W. why oh why won’t people just listen to you? jeez!

    i think that the statement “dissent is the highest form of patriotism” is inaccurate and largely used outside of its proper context. dissent has a huge role to play in patriotism, but dissent for stupid shit like the AFA boycotting mcDonald’s… freedom of speech is an invaluable tool in righting societal wrongs. without freedom of speech, dissent would not really be possible. so i agree with the statement sometimes, but there are other times when i feel that it’s not appropriate.

    other than that, i really have no idea what patriotism is anymore. love of country?

    here’s a poem that i found in high school. i’m not a pacifist, i support violence as one form of self-defense, but this poem has always stuck with me. it’s not a long poem, and i HIGHLY recommend reading it.

    Wilfred Owen

    Dulce Et Decorum Est

    Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
    Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
    Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
    And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
    Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
    But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
    Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
    Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.

    GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!– An ecstasy of fumbling,
    Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
    But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
    And floundering like a man in fire or lime.–
    Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
    As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

    In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
    He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

    If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
    Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
    And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
    His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
    If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
    Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
    Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
    Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,–
    My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
    To children ardent for some desperate glory,
    The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
    Pro patria mori.

    (the latin means “it is good and right to die for your country”, which is an old latin or greek proverb that was oft revered. this poem was written by a soldier who died in ww1)

    Posted by Cheryl Carroll
    July 4th, 2008 at 4:59 am

23. I’d like to hear more from John David Prince…

    Posted by FuRyUs
    July 4th, 2008 at 12:52 pm

24. don’t encourage him, fury! what the hell’s wrong with you?

    Posted by Cheryl Carroll
    July 4th, 2008 at 4:22 pm

25. From Bob Herbert:

    Symbols of patriotism have replaced the hard work and sacrifice required to keep a great nation great…

    We can build spectacular new stadiums for football and baseball teams (the Yanks, the Mets, the Giants and the Jets are all getting ready to move into staggeringly expensive new homes) but we can’t rebuild New Orleans or reconstruct the World Trade Center site destroyed almost seven years ago

    Posted by OldLefty
    July 5th, 2008 at 8:21 am

26. PATRIOTISM = Freedom of speeach, the 2nd amendment[in its original words] & always question authority.

    I think Nixon wore a flag pin while fliping everyone the two finger bird.

    Posted by Anonymous
    July 5th, 2008 at 10:26 am

Leave a comment