The “A” Word
May 15, 2008Appeasement. We’ll hear it much during the presidential campaign. And Hitler analogies. Because every tin-pot dictator is Hitler and every Democrat is Neville Chamberlain. Bush was clearly taking a shot at the likely Democratic nominee when he said:
“Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.
“We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: ‘Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.’ We have an obligation to call this what it is-the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history.”
Obama responded quickly:
“It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel’s independence to launch a false political attack,” Obama said in the statement his aides distributed. “George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president’s extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel.”
Dana Perino denies this is aimed at Obama who, she says, thinks the world revolves around him because he’s a presidential candidate.
“I understand when you’re running for office you sometimes think the world revolves around you. That is not always true. And it is not true in this case.”
But Ed Henry at CNN reports it differently:
…White House aides privately acknowledged to CNN that the remarks were aimed at the presidential candidate and others in his party.
Here’s the video:
Robert Gates says there must be direct engagement with Iran to resolve our differences, as Fox’s Major Garrett points out.
“We need to figure out a way to develop some leverage . . . and then sit down and talk with them,” Gates said. “If there is going to be a discussion, then they need something, too. We can’t go to a discussion and be completely the demander, with them not feeling that they need anything from us.”
If the Bushies were to speak openly of the reasons behind their continuing fascination with Iran, nearly all of us would finally understand just how crazy and dangerous they are. Bush’s job approval rating would sink to its final, Bush-base, crazy 5%.
Until that day, we can only read between the lines and guess at their true motivations. My guess is based on my own interpretation of the works of Dobson, Hagee, Falwell and it doesn’t bode well for either the USA or Israel.
It may be a rough summer for all of us.
Yup, Bu$h is still a scumbag!!
Bush remains delusional! Even so, the chances of major changes evolving quickly on the side of the radical funamentalists is disturbingly low…that’s why they are called radical. No harm in attempting to dialog, but don’t expect magic. After all, without us to hold up as the devil, how would they convince their followers that those virgins are worth it after all?
I’m kinda on the fence with this issue.I don’t think that talking with leaders such as the one in Iran will make any progress in altering their positions but at least we would be able to say that we tried.
Let me get this right. If we ‘talk’ to them we are somehow giving into their demands? Wouldn’t we also have some ‘requests’?
I’m sure there is back-door diplomacy going on right now, even in a Bush administration. This is nothing but posturing for the ideological right wing of the Republican party.
You can be sure,regardless of the party,there are always things going on behind the curtain that the citizens are unaware of.The politicians give us little nuggets of information about foriegn policy but you can bet there is so much more going on.
I truly don’t believe that Iran wants a war. Knowing the devastation it would cause, I’m sure they would be open to negotiating other alternatives, so why not try?
On the other hand, I’m sure a war with Iran is a Bush/Cheney wet dream.
The President was speaking in Israel, makes a statement about it’s historical enemies who persecuted the country. The President never had Obama on his mind at all and never referred to Obama in any way. Regardless, Mr. Obama thinks he’s thought of by everyone. What a dink!
Obama and some of his supporters are constantly looking for something to be offended by. This shows how sensitive he is about his foreign policy deficincies.
Meanwhile, he’s busy appeasing the oil sheikhs, who turn around and send that money to terrorist groups. Go figure.
How can Perino deny that those words were an allusion to Obama? Good grief!
I’m sure a war with Iran is a Bush/Cheney wet dream
LOL, Annie :-) It’s even more funny b/c it’s true.
Obama said
George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists…
Now we’re getting into a semantics issue. Offering to talk with Iran is actually an ‘engagement’.
I favor Gates’s position.
At this point the only thing that surprises me is that the Bush junta hasn’t bombed San Francisco.
Well, probably they’re a little short on bombs just now.
Obama shows how sensitive he is about his foreign policy “deficencies”. While in another blog you hope he’s elected for his political positions. Again, you simply amaze me with your political brilliance Craig. You and Mikey must have gotten your counterfeit high school or college degrees from the same guy. Impressive.
My websters dictionary defines appeasment as “to buy off (an aggressor)by concessions usu. at the sacrifice of principles”. Look it up. But these Liberals have no principles,so they don’t think they are giving up anyhing. Terrorists,on the other hand, have only one principle- Kill Americans and install an Islamic government everywhere. They will not compromise that principle. So we must kill them all. It’s dirty work, but we must do it if our children are to have any freedoms that the Liberals so loadly cherish. Regards. TOM
Kevin James (right wing, GOP radio nut) just appeared on Chris Matthews to repeat this nonsense that Obama is a Chamberlain style appeaser.
By yelling into the camera and nearly foaming at the mouth, I don’t think he did the Bush/GOP camp much good. That he didn’t seem to know what “appeaser” meant or even who Chamberlain was didn’t help his cause much either. James came across as a raving lunatic. I was half expecting him to declare BO the next Hitler. Mathews was even driven to call James “pathetic”.
These people (the GOP) have lost their minds.
I love how many of you contradict yourselves in the statements you make. It must be some sort of unknown foreign cerebral organism which is the culprit, or you dropped out of school to get a job.
That’s it! And you all work for the same employer and know each other.
ken,if you can find anywhere that I stated that I wanted Obama elected for ANY reason show me.
Once again you post incoherent and empty babble.
This is the last time I respond to you.
now, now
Diplomacy is exactly what we need. It’s vitally important to our security and avoiding war that Iran knows where we stand on the issue of Israel in particular. We have to make it clear through talks that we will not stand aside if they decide to drop a nuke on Israel.
Hillary Clinton has gotten some unfair flak for her poor choice of words in saying that we’d “obliterate” them, but she’s right that Iran needs to know where we stand. That may very well be the best way to avoid war. Would the Iranians really want to “wipe Israel off the map” if they know that would trigger mass retaliations not only from the Israelis, but from us?
Also, diplomacy would almost certainly put us on better terms with Iran. Ignoring each other and taking indirect shots at each other doesn’t solve anything. By recognizing each other and trying to sit down and have a dialogue, we may come to a better understanding of each other and thus have less animosity. I know it’s a stretch, but it’s worth a try at least.
After all, war should be an absolute last resort.
Kevin James on Chris Matthews. I watched it. Twice. At 5PM and then again at 7PM. Yes it was that good.
Just unbelievable. Matthews kept asking James if he knew what the historical reference was for appeasemnent, what it meant as far as Chamberland and Hitler were concerned. He didn’t know. He kept repeating himself, saying appeasement over and over again. I thought Matthews was going to pass out. Kevin James made a complete fool of himself.
You have to see this. It’s well worth your time.
A typical, hysterical right winger who didn’t know what the hell he was talking about. Here’s the link:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=YK0d8ENS__c
Thanks for posting the link, E. btw, when Shatner said last night that he had an ‘epiphany’ I got SOOO excited for you! Even thought it’s a coincidence, I thought it was funny b/c of your teenage crush on him. He said epiphany twice… must have been code! lol
Are you sitting down?
I agree.There I said it.:)
I don’t see how at least talking with Iran will hurt anything. It doesn’t show that the United States supports them. How can the US hold itself up as a beacon of peace and refuse to engage in talks with nations they are at odds with?
Whoa….there’s a first time for everything, I guess :)
I wasn’t even a teenager yet when I had my crush on Shatner. Did he really say that??? I missed it. Yeah I fell asleep early and missed the interview and the show. I was very disappointed.
DAMN!!! lol!
Epiphany, YOU SUCK!!! I can’t believe you missed that. :-D
That’s right, rub it in. :p
Iran knows where we stand regarding Israel. Israel knows where Iran stands regarding her future, and Ahmadinejad could care less about diplomacy. Chalk up another brilliant statement in stupidity Mikey.
Palestinians continuously negotiated with Israel in the past under a “cloak of diplomacy” and it was never worth the paper it was written on. Or, have’nt you any knowledge of past middle eastern diplomacy? I’ll take a chance and say, no.
Why not go down the street and show that same nieve trust in diplomacy to the local crack dealer and see where it gets ya. You might consider arming yourself.
“A typical, hysterical right winger who didn’t know what the hell he was talking about.”
Maybe this is only what happens when they have a little too much caffeine late in the afternoon?
I couldn’t believe they wrote Shatner out of the next Star Trek. So what if they killed him off in one of the movies? People return from the dead all the time in Star Trek. Bring back Kirk!!
‘Mouse~ you are honestly one of my favorite commentators on here. :-)
Ken… if we all just keep shooting each other, we’ll all end up dead. In a world with nuclear weapons, I’m not so excited about that idea. Why make treaties AFTER thousands of people die? Why not BEFORE?
(damn, I wish there were italics!)
sky~ use at the beginning of what you want to italicize, and then at the end
So, Cheryl is a Star Trek fan. Who isn’t?
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
Haha Cheryl you can’t explain it without what you wrote coming out italicized.
Ok. Put an i in front of the word and an /i after. But the i and /i should be enclosed by brackets such as . Hope that shows up right.
It didn’t show up right. lol.
Ok this “”. Around the i and the /i. With the word in between.
I know I’m not explaining this well.
LOL. Screwed up again. I don’t think I can do it. Ask WFG to explain this.
LOL!
Sky~ use the carrots in between the carrots, at the beginning of the word put an i at the end of the word, put this /i the / tells the computer that you’re done using the italics command
example:
substitute the letter n of course, and just use one i
it didn’t take my example. pretend that the quotations are the carrots
“i” “/i”
It’s not showing the carrots.
Epiph, you’re right. Where the heck is WFG???
*i*appeasement and carrots*/i*
Instead of the star * use the carrots (carrots? never knew they were called that) which is this symbol < and the other one.
appeasement and carrots
Okay, I’m starting the unofficial ‘best of radio graffiti’ list.
#4: Della said tonight that ‘the reason Obama won’t pick the Dragon Lady is b/c we don’t need two presidents in the White House’. (Oh, Della. Precious, Precious Della!)
#3: When I smell my fingers, I feel sexy.
#2: Real men love Bush.
#1: Caller: Alan, you’re the biggest jackass on talk radio. Alan: You have to be number one at something!!!
LOL
Maybe Della’s statement should be #3. I’m sure that all of her calls are going to be right up there at the top.
Epiphany~ that last example for Sky should do the trick. Maybe on the new site they’ll have a reference chart with the cheat codes. And, I don’t know that it’s called a carrot officially, but that’s what I’ve always said.
Again, someone else knows nothing of tiny little Israels diplomatic struggle for peace among the giant nations of Islam. Sky has never passed a world history class, and probably never seen a world map. I’m not surprised.
Why not try taking your suggestions for diplomacy to any Islamic mosque. You’re sure to be told tiny little Israel is the vile oppressor of Islam, and they are the ones who want peace.
Look at a world map and compare the size of the Islamic nations surrounding Israel and give me one good reason why the Jews should keep giving up their land in any peace settlement. The Islamic nations want to drive the Jews off the land and claim it as their own, and it’s been peacemealed through peace treaties time and again under a false cloak of diplomacy by the nations of Islam.
But, don’t take my word for it. Try brushing up on some world history. Or, keep listening to Mikey.
OK, so if “appeasement” is “buying off an aggressor” then what do you call the millions we’ve handed to various Iraqis factions to persuade them to stop fighting?
Oh, I know! You call it “nation building.”
—– —— ——- ——-
My votes for the graffiti list:
#5 “This is whispering Bill Anderson.”
[Someone explain that to me.]
#6 “I just want me some big ole boobies.”
[The Bubba voice makes it funny.]
RC
Your question is my point. Why is it people like you can’t understand what you read?
We’ve been buying into peace treaties mostly with cash, and convincing Israel to divy up some real estate for decades. I’d say these have been great examples by Israel and the USA of diplomacy. However, once the cash runs out the murderous attacks against Israel begin. An endless cycle that needs to end.
But what do you do with an enemy that continuously resorts to murder to achieve it’s goal?
Oh, I forgot. More nieve diplomacy.
>Bush was clearly taking a shot at the likely Democratic nominee
Because, somehow, Republicans cannot appease?
C Smith,
The President was speaking to Israel, about Israel, during Israels anniversary as a free and diplomatic country. He was speaking about the diplomatic dealings in the past that never worked because the Islamic countries have never, and never will accept a peaceful coexistance with Israel. His statement had nothing to do with Obama, except in the obviously delicately sensitive little minds of Obama himself, and the Democrats.
Poor little babies with little understanding. Here, let me get your binkies.
watch John McCain’s flip flopping on speaking with Hamas.
in 2006, McCain said he is willing to speak with hamas but today, mccain says he isn’t willing to speak with hamas and is slamming Obama for that issue.
but Sky News had an interview with McCain regarding Hamas, watch the video and decide for yourself:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=oXp-_RKTzo8
Speaking of little understanding, here we go again with statements and conclusions made without any basis of fact. All made with a lack in the comprehension of listening and reading skills, combined without the knowledge of world history and the middle east.
And, before anyone begins to compare Obama to any great diplomatic Presidents such as Roosevelt, Kennedy or Reagan, they first made damn sure all the bases were covered with huge strategically positioned military forces before entering negotiations with our enemies.
Just in case being nice(diplomacy)would’nt work.
Thanks Louie.
McCain Was For Talking To Hamas Before He Was Against It…
Huffington Post | May 15, 2008 10:58 PM
Two years ago, in an interview with James Rubin for Sky News, Sen. John McCain expressed a willingness to negotiate with the terrorist group Hamas — the very group that McCain has been relentlessly using to smear Sen. Barack Obama over the last several weeks.
Rubin has written an op-ed in Friday’s Washington Post about his exchange with McCain, and The Huffington Post has obtained exclusive video. Here’s the key excerpt:
RUBIN: “Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?”
McCAIN: “They’re the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, so . . . but it’s a new reality in the Middle East. I think the lesson is people want security and a decent life and decent future, that they want democracy. Fatah was not giving them that.”
RC~ I’ll add whatever you guys want. A lot of the things are just so insightful and/or funny that I thought it would be cool to keep a list. I’m not able to catch everything, but yeah, the Bill Anderson guy is funny too. :-D
So yesterday I bought my 2nd book by Howard Zinn. I’m very interested in delving into his mind. In an incredible coincidence, I read the following after Alan’s program last night:
Pacifism does not mean “appeasement”. That word was often hurled at those who condemned the present wars on Afghanistan and Iraq, and was accompanied by references to Churchill, Chamberlain, and Munich. World War II analogies, however irrelevant to a particular situation, are conveniently summoned when there is a need to justify a war. At the suggestion that we withdraw from Vietnam, or not invade Iraq, the word “appeasement” was bandied about.
To reject war is not th “turn the other cheek”, as pacifism has been caricatured. It is, in the present instance, to act in ways that do not imitate the terrorists.
Regarding options either than an immediate rush into war:
There was also the avenue of negotiations. (And let’s not hear: “What? Negotiate with those monsters?” The United States negotiated with- indeed, brought into power and kept in power- some of the most monstrous governments in the world.) Before Bush gave the order to bomb, the Taliban offered to put bin Laden on trial. This was ignored. After ten days of air attacks, when the Taliban called for a halt to the bombing and said they would be willing to talk about handing bin Laden to a third country for trial, the headline in the NEW YORK TIMES the next day read: PRESIDENT REJECTS OFFER BY TALIBAN FOR NEGOTIATIONS, and Bush was quoted as saying: “When I said no negotiations, I meant no negotiations.”
book: A POWER GOVERNMENTS CANNOT SUPPRESS, published 2007, from the essay in the book called PACIFISM AND WAR, excerpts from pages 92-93
The Jews in Israel had no misunderstanding of our Presidents address. The Muslims understood every word, and our allies understood every word. Only the liberals and democrats in this country have this difficulty. There must be some sort of medical, or psychological description for such a thing.
Yes there is! It’s called STUPIDITY!
Ken:
Apparently you are horribly misguided or severely brain damaged. It is obvious to everyone (except you and a few reich wingers) that he was using the podium in Israel for a political smear aimed at the democrats.
I suggest you go back to watching cartoons, as that seems to be your speed.
TDro,
Maybe you listen much too much to hip, hop. The President used english in his address, not ebonics. You may also consider turning the volume down a bit.
What does hip hop and ebonics have to do with what TDro just said Ken?
I gave up trying to dailogue with Ken a long time ago. Someone else here defended him without checking to see what Ken’s posts are all about. I think that Ken would be much happier on a David Duke fan club type blog.
Since I’ve started listening to Alan’s show, and reading Zinn, I’ve really been able to open my mind to Liberalism. As someone raised in a Christian household, I thought that the Libs just stood for anti-Christian values. It’s amazing how your point of view can change when you actually take the time to try to understand where the other party is coming from.
On a probably unrelated note, I live about an hour south of DC. I’ve been wanting to drive up to the monuments the last couple of weeks, but the round trip will cost me about $34 in gas… isn’t it pathetic that I can’t even spare thirty bucks to drive up and see statues dedicated to my heroes? I have to watch where every penny of my money is going right now, and I just can’t do it. It’s a total bummer. My favorites to go see are the Jefferson Memorial, FDR Memorial, and Vietnam Memorial. I also like to go see Lincoln’s b/c of the big steps!
Hi Cherylcarroll,
TDro obviously has a problem understanding the Presidents address to(not Obama or the Dems)Israel.
I’m Christian too, and your point is?
Ok, just where is the “other party coming from”?
Heck, I can stand on my own two feet thank you.
I’m not in need of anyone’s defense.
You give up on dialogue with me because I simply disagree?
Cherylcarroll,
One more thing. TDro is a hip hop signature.
My reference to ebonics is it’s conflict to the english language and his inability to understand the Presidents address.
Your comparison of me with David Duke, and your criticism of my reference to hip hop shows the stench of your own racism by assuming TDro is black and only blacks use hip hop signatures, ebonics, and listen to hip hop.
He may very well be white.
You have no ability of reason Cherylcarroll.
You are like the rest who blog here. In his address to Israel the President was referring to his foreign policy, and all the failed diplomatic attemps for a lasting peace by other Presidents and diplomats in the past with Israels, and our enemies.
However, just as you’ve done with me, you assume the Presidents remarks were about someone, or something else.
Save that $34.00, buy a mirror, and look at your own racism and hypocracy. Save some for english reading and comprehension night classes too.
Dear Grandpa Ken~
I didn’t say that I was a Christian, I said that I was raised in a Christian home.
I choose not to interact with you b/c you rant about our supposed ignorance, without reading the comments. That AMAZES me… how do you bitch about what someone says when you don’t even READ what they’re saying? And you continue to make hateful statements about blacks. You just love to pick on blacks. It’s disgusting.
Granpa Grump, you can chalk my distaste with communicating with you up to anything you’d like. I don’t give a damn.
I was the one who made the reference to your hip hop comment.
And your response did not answer my question. What does hip hop and ebonics have to do with TDro’s comments? TDro’s post was not flavored in “ebonics”. In fact he used perfect English.
As far as your question — You give up on dialogue with me because I simply disagree?
I won’t speak for Cheryl, but I will say, that it might be because you cannot seem to make a comment or have a conservation without being extremely hostile and insulting. Yes I know, he insulted you first but you respond this way to EVERYONE.
And as I remember you’ve also made some racist comments as well. No one should have to tolerate that.
Right on, E.
Epiphany,
I never mentioned a word about Christianity.
I’ve made some racist comments? Where?
I made the hip hop comment because of the signature.
He failed to understand the Presidents address (like you do)regardless of his english.
The comment you refer to was never a question.
Cheryl has a diffcult time speaking for herself.
And every other statement you’ve made is all based on assumption.
Hostile and insulting? The pot calls the kettle black.
Poor babies, here’s your binkies.
Good ol’ Ken at work:
http://liberalland.com/2008/05/08/mccains-other-pastor-problem/#comments
http://liberalland.com/2008/05/03/hagee-get-a-job-or-starve/
Cherylcarrol,
I have’nt made one single hateful statement about blacks.
And your memory about racist comments I made, well I guess you’re void of memory.
Time for you to reboot.
Both of you completely missed my prior explanation so please read it again so I can avoid drawing you both a picture.
Or, if my statements are that difficult to understand, get yourselves a copy of “My Dog Spot”.
It’s easy elementary reading.
Oh that’s right. He doesn’t like Muslims either. He assumes all Muslims want to kill us.
Ken, all you’re looking for is a fight. All you want to do is be agressive and antagonize people. I’m expecting soon for you to say, Nah Nahhh Nah Nah Nah… Why do you even post on here? You don’t want to have a civil conversation or an intelligent debate, so what is your purpose for being on here and posting?
THAT’S why I ignore him. He’s GRUMPY.
Grumpy? Grumpy doesn’t even BEGIN to explain it. lol. Andy Rooney is grumpy. I’m grumpy. Ken’s not grumpy… ok he’s grumpy. Times 100.
Cherylcarroll & Epiphany,
You’re right. I’m here to antagonize antagonists such as yourselves.
You’re wrong, I like Muslims as much as they like me.
And, since when has either one of you had a civil conversation with someone here?
Answer: When they’ve agreed with you.
Intelligent debate is a stretch don’t you think? Two words the both of you might consider using a dictionary for to understand their meaning.
Class………dismissed.
I dont see how anyone can come to the conclusion that
its a bad idea to try diplomacy.
Isnt that how Reagan got Russia to stand down after years of the cold war thing.
Hum, ended the war without firing a shot.
Can’t get any better than that.
That by itself,should prove alot
The right person can make a big differece.
It doesnt matter if its Democratic or Republican its who’s doing the talking.
“You’re right. I’m here to antagonize antagonists such as yourselves.”
Thank you for answering my question. Now I can ignore you.
Wave Bye Bye :D
E, you crack me up! :-D
And I don’t agree with everyone on here, I get nasty in RESPONSE to the nastiness of others.
Did you hear me call about the FLDS sect? What’s your take on that?
I don’t agree with everyone either. I try to be civil with those who I disagree with if they are civil to me. I probably don’t always succeed.
Oh I missed your call. I haven’t been listening for the last hour because I had to be on the phone and frankly I’m not crazy about the Red Eye people. lol.
WFG must be in seventh heaven right now. 2 hours!
WFG hasn’t posted tonight during the show. He’s AWOL. Noel’s back, though. However, I’m ignoring him for ditching us. I’ll keep that up for… oh, I don’t know… about 10 minutes or so. LOL
YOU HAVE TO BE TRUSTED AND RESPECTED TO NEGOTIATE PEACE
By scorpi2000 - May 17th, 2008 at 1:53 am EDT
I dont see how anyone can come to the conclusion that
its a bad idea to try diplomacy.
Isnt that how Reagan got Russia to stand down after years of the cold war thing.
Hum, ended the war without firing a shot.
Can’t get any better than that.
That by itself,should prove alot
The right person can make a big differece.
It doesnt matter if its Democratic or Republican its who’s doing the talking.
I can see why no one trusts or responds to the Bush distort the truth type of diplomacy.
BUSH AND HIS BUDDIES ARE NOT TRUSTED ENOUGH TO PULL OFF THIS TYPE OF DIPLOMACY.
THE WHOLE WORLD HAS BEEN WATCHING.
OBAMA 08
SOMEONE OUR ENIMIES WOULD TRUST AND RESPECT IN A SERIOUS CONVERSATION ABOUT PEACE.
THANKS
SCORPI2000
TDro,
Horribly misguided?
You in assuming the President needs to travel around the world just to smear someone in his own coutry.
Brain damage?
The cause of your “horribly misguided” assumption.